Brian Jones – Gravity Lending

Graeme Gilovitz
Hey everyone and welcome to this episode of the digital transformers podcast here at the podcast we’re obsessed with how companies navigate the rapidly changing environment that we find ourselves in every day. And we especially love talking to leaders from a wide range of industries about how they are meeting the challenge of digitizing their business and customer interactions. Yeah. Hi everyone, I’m Graham Gilovitz.

Eytan Morgenstern

And I’m Eytan Morgenstern and we’re your hosts on the digital transformers podcast. Today we spoke with brian jones Ceo and founder of gravity lending out of austin texas, a company that was founded just two years ago, only months before the pandemic. Now, up until now on the podcast, we’ve had leaders within organizations was the first time we have someone in the ceo founder head honchos, the company on to talk about how he built the company from the beginning, the digital focus in mind and he has some great tips for other business owners out there and how they can build a digital first company and digitally transformed to become competitors that win. So let’s listen and hear Brian has to say thank you brian for joining us before we get into the questions about a lot of different issues here, maybe take a moment to introduce yourself and gravity lending, what you guys are all about.

Brian Jones

Sure, I’m Brian jones the founder and ceo gravity lending and we started this company a couple of years back based on a lot of prior experience from myself and some of our team members and we really set out to create a customer experience that was unmatched in the industry. We know through technology and the consumers access to that technology that the consumer lending marketplace has changed dramatically. So when we first started rolling, we wanted to build an all encompassing consumer lending platform and we’re still on target to do exactly that. But we started the automotive refinance space and now we represent lending institutions across the country and have a reach for consumers and all different kinds of market media to be able to assist them and refinancing their auto

Graeme Gilovitz

awesome. Listen, you’re the first person we’ve got brian on our podcast who is actually a business owner, which we think is really intriguing because you see things very differently to an employee no matter what level of management they are or front of house to customers. Seeing it from your perspective is going to be very, very interesting today. As you said, you started gravity learning about two years ago when you, why do you think that this opportunity has been created and why other companies aren’t following your footsteps towards Fintech in this space?
Brian Jones I think that most of them are doing the best they possibly can. To be honest with you. I think that the industry, the specific industry, the automotive refinance market, is filling up with lots of new competition, A lot of outsiders trying to jump in. A lot of people sinking millions, tens of millions of dollars into starting their company. It was one of the intriguing parts of our story is that we really started this with next to nothing. We were broke for our first year, year and a half and then the company took off so fast that we’ve become very financially stable and successful. But I think it’s a mindset of it’s a complex transaction in terms of consumer lending outside of mortgages, it’s probably the most complex, has the most documentation, the most steps to it. And so people are traditionally going after the personal loans because a simple three page document signed and done. Right.

Graeme Gilovitz

So, you think that the complexity is the major barrier for people or rather companies to to digitize and start looking at those processes like you guys have.
Brian Jones I really do. I think that keep in mind with the automotive refi space, you’re doing a lot of title work on the back end and the majority of our Dms still do not accept electronic signatures. And so it really breaks up the entire process and the consumer experience because you have to get wet signatures on a couple of dots in order to complete the overall transaction.

Eytan Morgenstern

That’s in all states,

Brian Jones

florida alleges that they accept these signatures, but it’s county by county and they do kick back along paperwork for it. So it really slows down our process. Whereas if the consumer could just sign everything electronically, the experience would be unbelievable. But that’s just the one minor flaw we’ve got to deal with and we overcome at most times.

Eytan Morgenstern

And this is by the way, 2021 we’re talking right

Graeme Gilovitz

now just so

Eytan Morgenstern

people don’t know

Graeme Gilovitz

and we’re still in like we’re still not out of Covid. And you would think that this would have been something that would have been accelerated by now, right?

Brian Jones

You would and think about how made it is that a linear institutions willing to lend $50,000 on an electronic signature? But the D. M. V. Won’t simply fill out paperwork.

Graeme Gilovitz

That’s great bureaucracy, right?

Eytan Morgenstern

We won’t spend the whole time bashing

Graeme Gilovitz

D. M. V. Although we

Eytan Morgenstern

could well, we won’t keep it there too

Graeme Gilovitz

much. We’ll send this to your biggest your biggest friends at the D. M. V. And then give him a shout out, right?

Brian Jones

I would like to have a talk with him and ask him what the hell is going on. Excuse me.

Eytan Morgenstern

So I think you know it’s interesting question because you know you’re talking about how you just found about two years ago you were founded really months before the pandemic hit. It’s not tourism, it’s not you know, restaurant. But I imagine finding finding any business just months before worldwide pandemic that none of us were prepared for a lot of ways. How did you guys manage to a deal with it and be you know, successfully grow? I think you I saw an article where you guys had grown 400% in a year or two, whatever it is since we were founded, how did you manage to do that kind of thing um in this

Graeme Gilovitz

situation under the circumstances? Yeah.

Brian Jones

Well you won’t hear many people say this about the pandemic but it was the best thing that ever happened to us, Wow! one being in the financial industry, we were a necessity. So we were able to continue operating. We never shut down our operation. We didn’t send everybody home, we just continue to plug through it and put all the safety protocols in place that we could to keep everybody safe. But we also had our bouts with it. We had a pretty bad infection rate there for a while. But everybody else just stepped up. Now from a company standpoint financial standpoint, it was fabulous because when the new car market shut down, you had all these lending institutions that had an abundance of capital and nowhere to lend it.

Eytan Morgenstern

And

Brian Jones

so they all had to come running to us to be able to deploy that capital. So it wasn’t sitting there idle and costing them money. And so it increased the demand for our product dramatically. And we were positioned and had the right team together that was able to take advantage of it. And that was one of the primary reasons for the massive growth as quickly as it was,

Graeme Gilovitz

wow. That’s crazy. I never thought of it like that.

Eytan Morgenstern

Right? Yeah. I think it’s definitely been some industries and some companies that their product and what they were offering all of a sudden became that much more important because of the mess of the pandemic. What was happening.

Brian Jones

That’s exactly right. Not to mention the instability in the workforce. Everybody was looking to reduce their monthly expenses as much as they possibly could. So an abundance of capital, abundance of capital and an increase in demand from the consumers. We were in the perfect spot for it

Graeme Gilovitz

as the business owner and founder and acting and and currency. How do you determine where your next technology investments are made? and what offsets do you look at? So, you know, traditional company was like, all right, well I need to employ people. I needed to do this. I need to that. And where does technology come in your if you are in a way a fintech. Right. So how do you look and evaluate your tech in relation to your resources and where you’re gonna divide and implement that or allocate that money?

Brian Jones

We’ve come up with a pretty impressive matrix of how we prioritize our needs and that also goes towards technology. And so due to the rapid growth, we’ve had to hire a lot of humans. So right now, the primary thing we’re looking at is what can we automate the quickest that will have the most impact. So we can reduce the stress off of our workforce. We would like to be able to triple our capacity without having to triple our workforce. And so when we got started, we had to, our team did a phenomenal job looking at the different platforms that we wanted to put together because we didn’t have the capital to build our own technology at that time. And so now that we’ve become a little bit more stable financially, we’re able to really start deploying those resources and investing that capital and technology that’s going to help us continue to expand because that’s probably our biggest hendricks to growth right now is humans,

Graeme Gilovitz

isn’t that that ironic? Is it before? It was people were afraid of technology because it would replace humans and now you’re talking that you don’t have enough humans to work the technology

Brian Jones

that’s spot on. It really is. And not to mention the amount of time and money it takes to train new hires. Want to try and stay away from that as much as possible and be able to reward your workforce that’s busted their butt to get us to this point, because the more we can automate, the less people we hire, the more I can afford to pay them.

Graeme Gilovitz

Yeah, Sounds awesome. You mentioned just then something about, you know, before you were buying the technology, are you now more of a in house development company where you build it yourself to your needs? Or do you still go out to vendors for specifics? How do you work that in house versus vendor relationship or Matrix?

Brian Jones

It really depends on the project, we’re doing a little bit of both of that, you know, like the easy signature platform. We’re never going to sit down and try and develop anything like that. We’ve got an unbelievable partner in politico and we want to exploit their abilities, not try and build it. But there are some internal processes and reporting that there’s nobody that really has an off the shelf platform that we can use. And so those custom things are more of what we’re focusing on. But when we started, I told you about the limited financial resources. The other thing was how do we get to the market fastest? So somebody’s already built a piece of technology that’s function in the marketplace. It will be more impactful to pay for it than it would be to spend the months to build it.

Graeme Gilovitz

Wonderful. All right. And you have a set team that are, so when you’re evaluating tech, just out of curiosity, we talked to a lot of people on the podcast and in our normal day to day work. Well, we’re not doing this and having some fun is it’s always that question of, where does that evaluation sit? Does it sit within the business or do you have a tech team that are constantly evaluating tech for the business? Such as it? Would you have a lab group? How do you go through that evaluation process?

Brian Jones

Well, we have a long term plan of what we want to turn this company into and so that is already established and being worked on by a specific group of individuals. As far as new technology goes right now, it’s more of on a need basis. If we run into a level of pain that’s intolerable and then we’ll immediately start researching those companies that are offering platform that could ease that pain. And it’s really a couple of vice presidents or C. I. O. And myself that are driving that need. And then we’ve got a great project manager that really helps see everything to fruition once we do choose which direction we want to go.

Eytan Morgenstern

So I want to ask you in general about, you know, technologies, whether it’s you know in house stuff or bring something from,

Graeme Gilovitz

you know, an outside

Eytan Morgenstern

vendor, what are the challenges you had to deal with implementing those kind of technologies? Right. Everything on his own may stand very nicely, but getting all to work together seamlessly so that the consumer on there and feels like I’m doing with gravity lending and they have all these different tools. I don’t feel like I’m changing channels or having to log in five times that kind of thing. How do you make those uh journeys seem seamless? How do you get those technologies work together?

Brian Jones

Interesting question. So when we started to assemble the stack of technology that we’re currently using, integration capabilities was a big component of the decision making. How strong was the ap and reviewing a lot of those? But most of our technology right now is in house. So the customer experience is really driven by the little co platform, believe it or not, and when a consumer finishes their transaction with us, they remember that part more than anything else. Because outside of going to our site, submit an application, there’s a lot of not a lot of interaction are consumers have with our technology yet? Now, what we have planned in the future and what we started to build that will change that dramatically. And when we’re looking at the customer journey, that was the one thing that when we started about, we started talking about building this company, we focused on the customer experience, How do we make it the best in the industry and what technology platforms are gonna allow us to do just that? So which ones were the most configurable and which ones were the most seasoned and had great reputations out in the marketplace.

Graeme Gilovitz

You just mentioned something very interesting. You wanted to become the leader in the customer experience side. When you look at building your own company, who do you put on a pedestal as best in breed? Right. A lot of the conversations we have with different people in our day today, is that a lot of customers don’t judge one ven one company against themselves, another player in the same market. In the back of their mind, they’re thinking of the best experience I’ve ever had. Right. So do you look at amazon? Are is there a company out there that you say, look, these are the gold stars and we want to learn from these guys?

Brian Jones

We took a combination of a bunch. Usa the big insurance company here in the States has a great interface. Always love their technology. Amazon obviously has one of the best customer

Eytan Morgenstern

experiences

Brian Jone

out there. And so you do you want to find a way to get the consumer through the entire process with as few task and thinking steps as possible. And so you want to deliver everything to them where it’s a simple click and move forward. And when we looked at all the different platforms that we had all used, we came up with what we thought was the best, but we still have a long way to go to. Really perfect that.

Eytan Morgenstern

Yeah. So I want to talk about about returning to normal. Right? So you guys, you mentioned how you know, you’re, you know, large part of the workforce was working through the pandemic the entire time returning to normal. You have these to your journey of other plane technology. How are you looking towards the future as far as choosing what technologies to invest in, whether it’s outside the company or inside the company? How do you determine what those next steps are?
Brian Jones Well, first thing we do is we sit down and evaluate the impact and expense and potential R. O. I. So what are we gonna get back and then once we measure those things, that’s really how we’re determining where to steer the company, What’s going to generate the biggest bang for our buck and what’s the complexity and completing it? Because there’s a lot of things that we want to do that we actually shut down because it’s just gonna take too many resources and too much time away from the day to day stuff that we need to be getting done. One thing that’s a lot of fun about this company right now is there are so many directions we can go in the consumer lending space that determining which of those two Chase is the most exciting thing and we’ve already started working on expanding our portfolio a couple other lending products and we were hoping to roll those out early next year.

Graeme Gilovitz

Yeah, look as, as a bit of a trendsetter with what you’re doing, what’s your prediction for the next, you know, we’re in july right for the next, say, 6 to 12 months, um, with this new reality, some people are working from home, some people aren’t here in Israel, it changes every single day what the rules are, you know, what do you see as the transfer your industry in both from a customer interaction perspective based on the reality of what goes on versus the where the tech is going to take us, right?

Brian Jones

Isn’t that exciting? It is absolutely insane right now, how fast the consumer lending experience is evolving. So the consumers are going to demand access to more credit options. All of society is going to need them, not just the educated, not just the top tier technology individuals, but we’ve got to get access to this capital. You know, I read an article the other day and the Wall Street Journal that said, the population over 70 years old here in the United States is going to pass down $35 trillion by the time they pass 35. It

Graeme Gilovitz

depends on how long they lost. That could be a

Eytan Morgenstern

while.

Brian Jones

It really could. But even if it takes 20 years, that’s an absurd amount of money. And so these people, we always talk about trying to bring the classes back together and making it a fair marketplace. Well, I think technology is going to drive that for all of the classes within our society. And because it’s

Graeme Gilovitz

because it’s access right, if you don’t have access literacy and access to the two biggest um um discriminating factors.

Brian Jones

Yeah. No question spot on education is something that we have to start focusing on. And when we’re still teaching these kids in high school and junior high about things that are relevant in everyday life instead of about credit and finance, until we educate people and show them how important credit is and how to access the facilities that you need to. You’re always gonna have that separation and look, the banking world had been handled the same for the last couple of 100 years. Not much has changed in the last 10 years. If you went and thought about people having phones and being able to access the credit they need, as opposed to having to walk into a branch. People would have thought it was absurd, But now we literally from the seat and our home can get a $50,000 loan, have a vehicle deliver, can get a he lock if we need to, can get personal loans, credit cards and everything else. It is stinking insane. But you still don’t People still don’t understand why they should consolidate their credit card debt. That’s 20,000. You’re paying 18% interest on to a personal loan, that’s six or 7%.

Eytan Morgenstern

Yeah. You think about how the option, you know the opportunity now to buy the car online, get the financing quality on your couch, all done at your convenience. So consumers now expect that right in the same way that I’m ordering, like you said on amazon my coffee maker, I want to order my car in that way and so on. And if a company is not able to provide that, where are they going to be in a year? Are they gonna be able to compete? We now know, you know, if a year and a half ago my bank said to me or can you please fax that in? I know now a year and a half every industry out there has shown to me they can do it digitally now. The question is, which companies that don’t do it? How are they gonna survive? What’s, what’s that going to look like in a year? The legacy companies that just don’t know how to get with it.

Brian Jones

Yeah. The lack of involvement with some of the institutions is pretty intriguing. They built a great, built a great customer base, how lot going and then they just stop. And so you ask me where we’re going to invest in technology in 10 to 20% of all of our revenues are going to be reinvested in technology for as far as I can see ahead. That will never stop because everything is moving so fast. If you’re not introducing new technology annually, believe me, you’re falling behind everybody else out in the market,

Graeme Gilovitz

how do you deal with that? You know, you, I think you hit the nail on the head, which is what we’ve done in the last 10 years of society has been probably the one of the greatest leaps from the last 100 years for banking. Right. How do you personally keep up, like who are you reading? How do you balance learning about new technologies versus managing your business and how do you deal with consuming so much information? Because I know I have to literally on the weekends disconnect because I’m reading so much that it’s almost information overload. How are you as the head of the organization? How do you cope with those sort of issues?

Brian Jones

Okay. Yeah. You just have to sit through all the madness that’s out there and find something that sticks to you. I mean it’s like most of the professional books you read, 90% of it is stuff you already know when you’ve heard, but there’s 10% that you take away and actually do something with. But that is one of the things that we constantly struggle with here is pushing aside projects that seem worthwhile but won’t have an impact. And so people get their hearts tied to these things and they really want to get these projects done. But when you show them nine or 10 other projects are going to have a bigger impact, then they can understand why. And I think a lot of companies make those mistakes and they don’t talk with their people and explain why we’re changing what we’re doing and that hurts overall culture. But you’re exactly right. I mean between reading the articles and newspapers, the websites, the magazine, while you’re flying all those things, it’s where do you want to focus on it? And you have to have a team of people doing that? Because as an individual, you can’t consume all.

Graeme Gilovitz

On that note. As a question, how do you surface knowledge or how do you empower your your most junior staff to contribute to the evolution of your your company

Brian Jones

outside of constantly asking for feedback. And I don’t mean sending out a survey. I mean going to them and asking them what is one thing that you would like to improve one? What’s one thing that would speed up your daily life if you’re having those meetings with higher level people and not speaking to the people that are actually doing the work, you’re never gonna get great answers. You get some complaints but you’ll get a lot of insight if you’ll listen to what they’re telling you, they don’t always know how to describe what they want. But if you’re paying attention you can build what they want by simply listening to them. They give you all the details

Eytan Morgenstern

clearly understanding the pain, right? Whatever the pain is. What’s the problem? If you understand that clearly you can get to work on figure out the solution instead of saying, oh that looks like a flashy solution but it’s a solution looking for a problem. Start with the problem.

Graeme Gilovitz

I actually heard something interesting I think I think I don’t know if it was someone here in a conversation. What was the podcast is listening to? Someone said the difference between criticizing and critiquing is criticizing is being negative. Critiquing is trying to work towards improvement. Right? And when you talk to your staff about how can we make things better? It’s always about building upon building upon building upon as opposed to just wasting negativity. Right. Right.

Brian Jones

That’s exactly right. And keeping the excuses out of it, find the solutions and when somebody does come to move the problem, if they don’t follow up with a solution, I tell them to leave and come back when they have one and I’ll address their problems. But they’ve got to have an idea, their ideas are gonna always solve the problem to be perfect, but they’ve got to critically think about how to do that. And I think you get that when you set the culture of your company and when you do listen to people, you have to do something with what they tell you. If they give you information and you don’t follow through, you don’t follow up, you stop getting that information,

Graeme Gilovitz

you lose the respect and the trust of those that are giving it to you right?

Brian Jones

That’s exactly right.

Eytan Morgenstern

We also have a problem with, you know, we’re talking about digital transformation. You know, it’s a it’s a big word, but ultimately boils down to we have this problem or or a series of problems and we want to solve them. And if you’re not listening, you know, at the top, you have a certain view and that’s a certain advantage, but the bottom you also have a certain I deal with it on daily basis. And if you’re, you know, any organization out there trying to become better at their business, whatever it is, and then trying to involve digital or not digital, whatever is the improvement has to be focused on finding that listening to that and trying to find the right next

Graeme Gilovitz

step. Isn’t that I think that’s kind of interesting because it’s I think we spoke to Laurie poon about this at the auto group. Yeah. And she was saying that it’s that combination between technology and um, sentiment, right? So it’s like we want technology to make it easy for us, but there is that level of sentiment that technology can’t give us which the humans can and we need to find that combination. So that because we’re interacting with people right at the end of the day, we were a lot of these charges like you want auto finance, people don’t necessarily understand it, but they know that it’s gonna get them something cool. I want a new car, right? I need a new car. My current car is dead right in my case, right? So there is some level still of emotion in every transaction and it’s, how do you offset or balance between the tech which may not have the real emotion, It may be able to be picked up in A. I. And stuff like that. It’s not the same as a human.

Brian Jones

Well, you’re also dealing with different generations to the younger generation and what we found with this company is 90% of people don’t want to be on the phone with you. They want to do it via text chat, something like that. And they’ll get on the phone with you for the final few minutes. But I think that when we watched the generations come through, wait till this 18 to 24 year old group gets ahold of this technology and starts to help it evolve. The crazy thing is, is that when we hire these kids under 25 years old, the rate at which they pick up all the technology is absurd and then you have somebody like myself that it’s going to take you a week to train me so I can learn all the different ends and outs and the kids are coming in and figuring things out that we didn’t even know it would

Eytan Morgenstern

do.

Brian Jones

And so watching how fast they move this thing forward is gonna be crazy. They lack some of the sophistication when it comes to professionalism and we talk about that a lot, but a lot of that’s due to experience, lack of experience. But if you counter that with the sheer speed at which they adapt to technology, you can come up with some great team members. And we’ve been fortunate to do that.

Eytan Morgenstern

And I think, and I think it’s an interesting point because you have on both ends, right. Both on the employees and the people who are delivering technology and the experience and on the customers you have a couple of generations to work together with. Right. So a 18-24 year old might think we should be doing it this way. Which may be true for that, under 30 cohort, but over 30 they want to be on the phone. Over 50 there ought to be on the phone and managing all those different expectations and different technology channels or non technology channels, whatever it is, that’s a really big part of trying to determine how you want to digitally approach a problem.

Brian Jones

Exactly, right. And you’ve got to have a method for all of them. We have stats that show that we have people that will lean one way or the other, they’re not paying attention to who they’re talking to and their conversions will be significantly less. It’s not rocket science. You just got to pay attention to the numbers and that’s the motto we have in here. If you can’t measure it, it doesn’t exist. Yeah,

Graeme Gilovitz

yeah. You gotta be careful though, because I look at people like my dad, my dad’s quite technologically savvy, He’s probably more advanced than I am, and he’s an accountant, which flies in the face of everything, right? And then I’ve got my 13 year old son Who’s teaching me stuff, but he will not touch Excel or Google sheets because mom, I’ll never need to know that they’ve got a bet on, literally they’ve got a bet going that he didn’t want to learn how to use Google sheets or excel. He goes, I won’t need that in the next 10 years. And she’s like, talking about, he goes, by time I need it, it won’t exist. And it’s just probably true, but it’s so possibly true that my brain can’t even process that concept of what could be versus what we have.

Brian Jones

But it makes perfect sense. We didn’t grow up with the technology in our hands. Well, at least I didn’t Well, computers were first starting to come out when I was a teenager. And so now these kids are thinking far beyond anything that we can fathom, because we’re just ignorant to what’s possible. We still live in our bubble. And it sells exciting to some of us and these kids are going, well, that’s crazy, and it’s boring. Let’s do it better. And they’re finding new ways to do it.

Graeme Gilovitz

I’m cringing at that idea that I actually enjoy google sheets.

Eytan Morgenstern

I love a good Excel. Not google should do Excel. Okay. I think we have time for 11 last question. Yeah. Go for it. Um, what advice would you give to other people who are trying to navigate technology considerations for their roller business? Yeah.

Brian Jones

Take your time. And when you think you’re done researching research, some more. Look at numerous different platforms in the same space. A lot of times I watch business owners see a system that fills a void that they have at that moment, but they don’t look at the other four competitors of that system to see if they’re getting the best deal possible. I think most people are still fairly bad at negotiating agreements to and when you start out, like a small company like us, you may want the best platform, but you need to get a platform that solves your need Because a lot of people by technology for the bells and whistles that’s used less than 2% of the interaction with the end user and you need to get the core pieces are the most important and that’s what you focus on. So don’t worry about all the, the shiny objects and all the cool things. It does find out if that engine works the way it’s supposed to because if it won’t move then it was no good in the first place.

Graeme Gilovitz

Well that’s some very sound advice.

Eytan Morgenstern

My dad used to say measure twice, cut once before you put that investment in there, make sure you thought about a three or 45 times whatever it is not necessary to make sure you do it right. Yeah,

Graeme Gilovitz

good advice. All righty brian. Listen, but we’re going to finish up here before we finish up, we have what’s called the rapid fire five questions. Are you ready?

Brian Jones

Sure

Graeme Gilovitz

you don’t answer them as quickly as you can. You’ll start this time. All right. I’m doing it. What is them or who rather or what is the most recent or favorite person that you’re following on social media such as linkedin or twitter or any other social media?

Brian Jones

I’m not on twitter or any of that stuff because I’ve got so much to read from a technology standpoint.

Graeme Gilovitz

Do you read any publications? What’s the one that you get like that you’re really into at the moment?

Brian Jones

The Wall Street Journal.

Graeme Gilovitz

Alright, cool. In up to three words, what is the best part of your job

Brian Jones

waking up every day

Graeme Gilovitz

awesome. Right,

Eytan Morgenstern

okay. Apple or android. That’s 2 – one I’m losing.

Graeme Gilovitz

I’m winning. I’m going to do this because again, I don’t think you can say is it digitalization or digitalization

Brian Jones

digitization?

Eytan Morgenstern

That’s three and

Graeme Gilovitz

zero How we’re doing well? All right. Last

Eytan Morgenstern

one. Okay. Complete the following sentence.

Graeme Gilovitz

The future is

Brian Jones

right.

Graeme Gilovitz

Wonderful. Excellent. Thank you so much brian. We really appreciated your time and chat. Today was very interesting. Thank you so much

Brian Jones

appreciate the opportunity, guys.

Eytan Morgenstern

Mhm.